Professor, author and CEO of Clearly Innovative, Aaron Saunders talks about the challenges of being African-American in the tech industry.

Transcript

ERIC WESTERVELT, HOST:

Today, we’re going to dig into the challenges people of color face when it comes to navigating the tech industry. For African-Americans, rising through the ranks of the tech world is challenging on its own. Aaron Saunders is taking what he’s learned and using it to prepare young black programmers-in-training for the tough realities of a career where almost everyone is white. As part of our Black History Month series called BlackAnd, where we bring you stories of people navigating more than one identity, today we’re going to talk about being black in the tech industry. Aaron Saunders is CEO of Clearly Innovative, a tech company here in Washington, D.C., that builds a range of digital products. He joins us in our studio in Washington. Aaron, welcome to the program.

AARON SAUNDERS: Thank you very much.

WESTERVELT: So tell us your story. You’re in your 50s. Growing up, did you have a mentor that guided you toward tech, or did you find it on your own?

SAUNDERS: Actually, it is a funny story. I found tech on my own in school. I was small, got picked up quite frequently. And so I chose to stay in the library during lunch time. There was a large box sitting in the corner which happened to be a Commodore 64 that the librarians did not really understand what to do with it. So I said hey, can I open it up? So I opened up the box, read the manuals, taught myself how to program in BASIC. And that’s kind of where it all started. And that was in sixth grade.

WESTERVELT: Started schooling the librarians a little bit…

SAUNDERS: Yeah.

WESTERVELT: …On how to use their computer?

SAUNDERS: (Laughter) Yes, yes.

WESTERVELT: In your early years starting out, how common was it to run into other African-Americans in the tech field?

SAUNDERS: It was nonexistent. In the early years and even after – you know, when I was working in New York in the ’80s, I was a consultant for IBM. And I would go into meetings, and they were literally no other people of color in the room on either side of the table in most cases. I was senior-level architect. I would lead teams; I would lead projects and I spent a lot of time doing client-facing work. I would usually go into meetings and sit down and far too often, the client assumed that the person next to me was Aaron Saunders and that I was not Aaron Saunders the architect. And the person next to me was not African-American. It was very frustrating because especially in the consulting business, you’re basically selling yourself, right? You’re walking in a room; you’re telling the client hey, we’re going to get this done for you. Please pay us a lot of money to do this before you even do any work. And I think for African-Americans it’s a huge challenge because people come to the table with preconceived notions about our capabilities and what we can do. So you have to try even harder to get that point across that yes, I can get this done for you, yes, I am capable, yes, I belong here.

WESTERVELT: Silicon Valley tech companies have pledged to do more to create a more diverse workforce. Why do you think it’s taking so long and it’s so hard for them?

SAUNDERS: Because there aren’t any black people there. I mean, you’re – you know what I mean? It’s real simple. As well-intentioned as they are, right, it’s still challenging for a room full of nondiverse people to figure out how to address diversity, right? I know there’s a big push right now to address the lack of diversity in tech through HBCUs.

WESTERVELT: Historically black colleges and universities.

SAUNDERS: Yes. The bulk of the HBCUs are on the East Coast. The bulk of the tech companies are on the West Coast. You’re not going to solve this problem by just dropping in for a weekend or for a job fair. It’s going to take a committed kind of – for lack of a better word, you know, on-the-ground war.

WESTERVELT: When you meet tech companies there and talk about diversity, do you feel like you’re coming at it from really different places?

SAUNDERS: I think as an African-American when I discuss tech and tech diversity, I definitely am coming from a different place than most of the people that I’m talking to because you’re discussing things with them that they simply can’t wrap their head around. For example, take a person of color who’s grown up in a black community, went to high school in a prominent black community, probably went to a predominantly-black college. And even if they got that job at that great tech company now, it’s a complete culture shock. Beyond even what they’re capable of doing technically, they now need to kind of handled this, you know, this dualism of who they are and who they believe they need to be to be successful in the workplace.

WESTERVELT: It’s not just as simple as hiring? It’s…

SAUNDERS: It’s not just as simple as hiring.

WESTERVELT: You’re also teaching in Howard University’s computer science department. How do you approach preparing young students of color not just technically but in a tech world that’s still not inclusive?

SAUNDERS: So one of the things that I do when I first start my class is I ask my students how much programming experience they have. And the very first semester that I taught, what I found interesting was that some of my students had never programmed before they’d got to college. And I clearly articulated to them that if you want a job in the Valley, the people that you’re competing with for those jobs, a lot them probably started programming sixth, seventh, eighth grade and have been doing it for years. And so it’s a focus on making that extra effort and that extra commitment to kind of get back on track to be successful and be competitive.

WESTERVELT: Aaron Saunders is CEO of Clearly Innovative. He joined us in our Washington, D.C. studios. Aaron’s story BlackAnd in tech is the final part of our Black History Month series BlackAnd, which features different voices of those balancing multiple identities. To look back on the series, you can search for #BlackAnd on Twitter as well as on npr.org. Aaron, thanks for coming in.

SAUNDERS: Thank you very much.

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NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by a contractor for NPR, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio.

The European Central Bank is considering abandoning the 500 euro note. Harvard University’s Peter Sands explains why the 500 euro note is the currency of choice for organized crime and terrorists.

Transcript

ERIC WESTERVELT, HOST:

Ever thought of getting rid of the $100 bill? What about the 500-euro note? The European Central Bank right now is talking about getting rid of the big note, which is a controversial move for some countries tied to the euro, especially Germany. Critics of the 500-euro note saying it’s the currency of choice for organized crime groups looking to use cash for drug trafficking, corruption, money laundering, even for terrorist activities. Some even call the 500 euro the bin Laden. Meanwhile, supporters of the 500 note fear the move is a step toward getting rid of all cash transactions. Peter Sands is a former bank executive who’s now a senior fellow at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government. He wrote a report on why such high-dollar currency should be eliminated to make it tougher for criminals to transfer funds. And Peter Sands joins us now. Thanks for being with us.

PETER SANDS: Hi.

WESTERVELT: What’s your evidence that these big bills do in fact fuel criminality and corruption and even terrorism? Do we have hard evidence of that?

SANDS: I don’t think it’s right to say they necessarily fuel or encourage them. What high-denomination notes are doing is making it easier for the criminals to do what they want to do. And by taking them away, you’re simply making their lives harder. People underestimate how sort of heavy cash is. If you want to move a million dollars in $20 bills, it weighs 110 pounds. It’s actually pretty hard for a single individual to carry surreptitiously 110 pounds. In 500-euro notes, that’s less than 4 pounds.

WESTERVELT: There’s been some strong pushback, especially from Germany. Why are the Germans been so strong in support of the big note?

SANDS: It’s funny that high-denomination notes in almost every currency carry symbolism to people. And I think that is certainly true in Germany. You know, Germany’s history with currency has had its up and downs from the sort of terrible disaster the Weimar Republic to the Deutsche mark being very much a symbol of the resurgence of Germany in the postwar era.

WESTERVELT: One of the main arguments is that restricting cash could force that money back into banks, which is as we’ve seen in the past not always as reliable or 100 percent reliable.

SANDS: Well, for all the mistakes and gaps in the scrutiny and surveillance systems the bank have, at least they have some. The reality is we have no idea what’s happening in the criminal flows of cash because cash is completely anonymous and leaves no transaction record.

WESTERVELT: And aren’t there legitimate reasons for carrying 500-euro notes?

SANDS: Look, there are some legitimate reasons. People like high-denomination notes for giving gifts. They like it as emergency money when they’re traveling. But you’ve got to trade that off against the fact that when we do seizures of drug trafficking or human traffickers or you’re looking at the way that terrorist organizations finance themselves, you will find that a very large percentage of what is going on is being driven by high-denomination notes.

WESTERVELT: What about here in the U.S.? Is the Ben Franklin in any danger?

SANDS: I think there should be a debate as to the level of issuance and the role of the hundred-dollar bill. There are about 30 hundred-dollar bills for every U.S. citizen, yet the role they play in everyday life is extremely small. Around 5 percent of American adults have a hundred-dollar bill in their pocket at any one time. Yet somebody is holding those bills. And if you look at the data on seizures of drug cash, say, crossing the U.S.-Mexican border, the stuff that gets seized is almost invariably in hundred-dollar bills.

WESTERVELT: That’s former banker Peter Sands. He’s now a senior fellow at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government. Peter, thanks for speak with us.

SANDS: Thank you, Eric.

Copyright © 2016 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by a contractor for NPR, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio.