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Would A Payroll Tax Cut Help The U.S. Economy?

NPR’s Audie Cornish speaks with Jason Furman, who was President Obama’s chief economic adviser, about Trump administration’s consideration to stimulate the economy via payroll tax cuts.



AUDIE CORNISH, HOST:

President Trump suggested yesterday that his administration is considering proposing a payroll tax cut as a way to goose a slowing economy.

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PRES DONALD TRUMP: Payroll tax is something that we think about, and a lot of people would like to see that. That very much affects the working – the workers of our country.

CORNISH: The payroll tax is the money that’s automatically deducted from employees’ paychecks for Social Security and Medicare. But would cutting those taxes now help juice the economy? We’re going to put that question to Jason Furman. He served as an economic adviser to President Obama when Congress last gave a temporary payroll tax cut.

Welcome back to the program.

JASON FURMAN: Thanks for having me back.

CORNISH: The economy is growing at a slower rate now. The stock market has been jittery. People are worried about the prospect of a recession. This is not exactly what was going on during the Obama administration in those early days, right? But would cutting the payroll tax now help stimulate growth?

FURMAN: When we did the payroll tax cut, the unemployment rate was, you know, 8% or 9%. Right now it’s below 4%. So I don’t think this is something that’s needed right now. But there is enough uncertainty in the economy that, who knows? Maybe six months from now, things will deteriorate and we might actually need it.

CORNISH: The payroll tax is money that’s deducted from our paychecks, right? That would go to Social Security and Medicare. Don’t we need this money to fund those safety net programs?

FURMAN: In the Obama administration, we set up a mechanism that the Social Security trust fund was repaid entirely for all of the payroll tax cut, and so it had no effect on Social Security solvency whatsoever.

CORNISH: So basically the government filled in the gap while we took our pay cut.

FURMAN: Right. It doesn’t really have any effect at all on Social Security. It does increase our debt, and so there are consequences, but not consequences for Social Security or for senior citizens.

CORNISH: People don’t talk as much about deficits, but we’re already looking at a trillion-dollar deficit, right? Could the U.S. afford to pay payroll taxes again?

FURMAN: If we are in a decent shape, then I think it would be a wasteful addition to the debt. That would not be worth it. If the economy was turning down, then I would say we couldn’t afford not to do a payroll tax cut or some other form of fiscal stimulus.

CORNISH: But consumer spending has been strong, right? I mean, this is not the weak spot in the economy.

FURMAN: Yeah. Consumer spending has been the most consistent, strong spot in the economy. And that’s because employment levels are high. Wages are growing faster than inflation. And the types of worries we’re seeing are in financial markets which are forward-looking and trying to think about what’s going to happen next. But we’re really not seeing it for consumers and in the labor market today as a problem.

CORNISH: JPMorgan Chase came out with a forecast this week about the president’s tariffs on products from China, and it said, if fully implemented, Trump’s tariffs would cost the typical household a thousand dollars. So is that a reason to give ordinary Americans a break on their payroll tax?

FURMAN: Well, that might be a reason to drop the tariffs. But yeah, if you did a 2% payroll tax cut, and you made $50,000 a year, you would get a thousand dollars off your taxes. So that would roughly cancel out with the full amount of the tariffs.

CORNISH: What do you see as a possible alternative to this? I mean, some would say, look, there needs to be more business investment. Why not do an additional cut in the corporate tax rate?

FURMAN: I think there’s not a lot more room to stimulate the economy on the corporate side. I think if and when we need fiscal stimulus, we should have a comprehensive approach. Part of that is tax cuts for individuals. I would make them more progressive than a payroll tax cut, maybe give every household the same amount of money but phase it out for the most well-to-do households. But I’d also give fiscal relief to states and more money for things like unemployment insurance and nutrition assistance because if the economy turns down, those are the people that will be most hurt by it.

CORNISH: That’s Jason Furman. He served as chair of President Obama’s Council of Economic Advisers.

Thank you for explaining it to us.

FURMAN: Thanks so much.

Copyright © 2019 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

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Poll: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Says Pain Often Interferes With Daily Life

According to the latest NPR-IBM Watson Health Poll exercise, including stretching and yoga, is popular among younger people as a way to relieve pain.

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Daniel Grill/Getty Images/Tetra images RF

At some point nearly everyone has to deal with pain.

How do Americans experience and cope with pain that makes everyday life harder? We asked in the latest NPR-IBM Watson Health Poll.

First, we wanted to know how often pain interferes with people’s ability to work, go to school or engage in other activities. Overall, 18% of Americans say that’s often a problem for them. Almost a quarter – 24% — say it’s sometimes the case.

(Note: Because of rounding, total exceeds 100%)

NPR-IBM Watson Health Poll


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NPR-IBM Watson Health Poll

The degree to which pain is a problem varies by age, with 22% of people 65 and older saying pain interferes often with their daily lives compared with only about 9% of people 35 and younger.

Once pain strikes, how do people deal with it?

The poll found that 63% of people had sought care for their pain and 37% hadn’t. Younger people were less likely to have pursued care.

The most common approach is an over-the-counter pain reliever. Sixty percent of people said that is something they do. Another popular choice, particularly among younger people, is exercise, including stretching and yoga. Forty percent of those under 35 say exercise is a way they seek relief. Only 11% of people 65 and older say exercise is something they try for pain. Overall, 26% of people see exercise as helpful for their pain.

That level of exercise is “really exciting to see,” says Brett Snodgrass, a nurse practitioner and clinical coordinator of palliative medicine at Baptist Hospitals in Memphis, Tenn. In her experience, not nearly as many people were doing that, even a few years ago.

She says a decline in opioid prescribing could be part of the reason for the change. “Often prescribers were settling for prescriptions,” she says of health care providers’ longstanding approach. “Now that there’s less prescribing, patients are having to take more responsibility” for managing their pain, she says.

But options such as exercise and physical therapy are easier to access for people with higher incomes. Snodgrass points to the poll’s finding that only 15% of people whose income was less than $25,000 a year cite exercise as a way they relieve pain. By comparison, about a third of people making $50,000 or more annually say it’s one way they deal with it.

(Note: Up to two choices were allowed.)

NPR-IBM Watson Health Poll


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NPR-IBM Watson Health Poll

About 15% of Americans do turn to a prescription medicine to help get relief. People 35 and under were least likely to get a prescription drug for pain – only 3%. Older people, those 65 and older, were most likely to make use of a prescription medicine, with 23% opting for that approach.

In terms of treatment, pain needs to be viewed holistically, so that reliance on medicines alone doesn’t drive decisions. “If we don’t pay attention to pain as a public health issue, I think we’re going to be addressing half of the problem and causing another problem,” says Dr. Anil Jain, vice president and chief health information officer at IBM Watson Health.

In light of the efforts to reduce opioid use, we asked if people who are taking opioids for pain are concerned about becoming addicted: 16% said yes; 84% said no.

A little more than a third of people taking opioids said they were worried about losing access to opioids compared with about two-thirds who aren’t.

The nationwide poll surveyed 3,004 people during the first half of March. The margin of error is +/- 1.8 percentage points.

You can find the full results here.

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Former Arkansas VA Doctor Charged With Involuntary Manslaughter In 3 Deaths

Pathologist Robert Levy was fired from an Arkansas veterans hospital after officials said he had been impaired while on duty.

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A former pathologist at an Arkansas veterans hospital was charged with three counts of involuntary manslaughter in the deaths of three patients whose records he allegedly falsified to conceal his misdiagnoses.

According to federal prosecutors, Dr. Robert Morris Levy, 53, is also charged with four counts of making false statements, 12 counts of wire fraud and 12 counts of mail fraud, stemming from his efforts to conceal his substance abuse while working at the Veterans Health Care System of the Ozarks.

Levy was suspended from work twice — in March 2016 and again in October 2017 — for working while impaired, before he was fired in April 2018.

A June 2018 review of his work examined 33,902 cases and found more than 3,000 mistakes or misdiagnoses of patients at the veterans hospital dating to 2005. Thirty misdiagnoses were found to have resulted in serious health risks to patients.

The three deaths came as a result of incorrect or misleading diagnoses. In one case, according to prosecutors, a patient died of prostate cancer after Levy concluded that a biopsy indicated that he didn’t have cancer.

“This indictment should remind us all that this country has a responsibility to care for those who have served us honorably,” Duane Kees, the U.S. attorney for the Western District of Arkansas, said in a statement. “When that trust is violated through criminal conduct, those responsible must be held accountable. Our veterans deserve nothing less.”

Kees said Levy went to great lengths to conceal his substance abuse even during a period when he had pledged to maintain his sobriety.

Levy used 2-Methyl-2-butanol, a chemical substance that intoxicates a person “but is not detectable in routine drug and alcohol testing methodology,” the statement said.

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Ex-MLB Players Luis Castillo, Octavio Dotel Linked To Alleged Dominican Drug Lord

Octavio Dotel, then a pitcher for the Kansas City Royals, seen during a 2007 game. Dominican Republic authorities arrested the former MLB player, saying both he and ex-infielder Luis Castillo were linked with an alleged drug trafficker.

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Two former Major League Baseball stars, pitcher Octavio Dotel and infielder Luis Castillo, have been implicated in a massive drug trafficking bust in the Dominican Republic. The country’s attorney general, Jean Alain Rodríguez, announced Tuesday that the operation targeted alleged drug kingpin César Emilio Peralta, also known as “César the abuser,” and the extensive criminal operation he led.

Castillo is not the current Cincinnati Reds player of the same name. The Luis Castillo accused by authorities played with the then-Florida Marlins and the New York Mets.

Hundreds of narcotics agents, prosecutors and other government officials took part in the attempt to dismantle Peralta’s network, which Rodríguez called “the most important drug trafficking structure in the region” and that also included alleged money laundering. Dotel is among the suspects arrested, and Rodríguez named Castillo as one of the 18 figures linked to Peralta — though both Castillo and Peralta remained at large at the time of the attorney general’s announcement.

Rodríguez did not immediately specify the role authorities believe the two former baseball players performed in Peralta’s operation. He said his team had collaborated with the U.S. during the investigation, exchanging information with the FBI and the Drug Enforcement Administration.

The U.S. Department of the Treasury got involved Tuesday as well, sanctioning Peralta and his organization as “significant narcotics traffickers.”

“César Emilio Peralta and his criminal organization have used violence and corruption in the Dominican Republic to traffic tons of cocaine and opioids into the United States and Europe,” Sigal Mandelker, the undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence, said in a statement released by the department. “Treasury is targeting these Dominican drug kingpins, their front persons, and the nightclubs they have used to launder money and traffic women.”

“Only God knows the truth,” Castillo said on Instagram after Rodríguez’s news conference.

During his playing career Castillo was a three-time All-Star, three-time Golden Glove winner and World Series winner as part of the 2003 Florida Marlins. Dotel, for his part, is one of the all-time MLB leaders in the number of franchises played for: 13 teams during his 14-year career.

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U.S. Recycling Industry Is Struggling To Figure Out A Future Without China

Trash sent for recycling moves along a conveyor belt to be sorted at Waste Management’s material recovery facility in Elkridge, Md. In 2018, China announced it would no longer buy most plastic waste from places like the United States.

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The U.S. used to send a lot of its plastic waste to China to get recycled. But last year, China put the kibosh on imports of the world’s waste. The policy, called National Sword, freaked out people in the U.S. — a huge market for plastic waste had just dried up.

Where was it all going to go now?

In March, executives from big companies that make or package everything from water to toothpaste in plastic met in Washington, D.C. Recyclers and the people who collect and sort trash were there too. It was the whole chain that makes up the plastic pipeline. It was a time of reckoning.

John Caturano of Nestlé Waters North America, which makes bottled water, said plastic is getting a bad reputation. “The water bottle has in some ways become the mink coat or the pack of cigarettes. It’s socially not very acceptable to the young folks, and that scares me,” he said during a panel called Life After National Sword.

Sunil Bagaria, who runs recycling company GDB International, took his colleagues to task. “Forever, we have depended on shipping our scrap overseas,” he bemoaned. “Let’s stop that.” European countries, he added, “are recycling 35% to 40% [of their plastic waste]. The U.S. only recycles 10%. How tragic is that?”

After a couple of days of this, a woman named Kara Pochiro from the Association of Plastic Recyclers stood up and said not to panic. “Plastic recycling isn’t dead, and it works, and it’s important to protecting our environment, and it’s essential to the circular economy,” she reassured.

“Circular economy” is now a catchphrase that some say is a way out of the plastic mess. The idea is essentially this: Society needs plastic, but people need to recycle a lot more of it and use it again and again and again. That will eliminate a lot of waste and cut down on the avalanche of new plastic made every year.

So how does circularity actually work? A good place to find out is at a recycling company called TerraCycle in Trenton, N.J. The company’s global vice president for research and development is Ernie Simpson. A cheerful man with a Jamaican accent, he works out of a small lab at TerraCycle’s headquarters.

Plastic bottles surround an employee at a workstation inside recycling company TerraCycle’s headquarters in Trenton, N.J., in 2017.

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He’s also a physicist who’s part of a collaboration with Procter & Gamble to turn plastic trash into new products. In his lab, Simpson has an array of very sophisticated and expensive equipment — a Fourier-transform infrared spectrometer and a calorimeter, which use light or heat, respectively, to determine the chemistry of plastic. What goes into those devices is junk.

Simpson holds up a clear plastic bag. Inside, he says, “is the famous beach plastic from the ocean”: wrappers, caps, bottles. To recycle any of it, he has to know what kind of plastic each piece is made of.

How many kinds of plastic are there? “Ohhhh,” he sighs. “Indefinite, just about. There are about 20 different categories of material, but there are blends and there are hybrids.” Almost all possess their own characteristics, some easily recyclable, many not. Some can be melted down; others shredded mechanically or chemically broken down. They end up as pellets the size of small marbles. These go to fabricators that turn the material back into products.

“And so that’s how the famous Head & Shoulders shampoo bottle was created,” Simpson says, referring to what P&> calls the “world’s first recyclable shampoo bottle made from beach plastic.” That’s a form of circularity — pouring old plastic into new bottles.

There’s a catch though. “This particular one,” Simpson says of the beach plastic, “is probably three times as expensive as virgin” — virgin being brand-new plastic made straight from oil and gas out of the ground. This is one of the obstacles to circularity: It costs a lot. There’s not a lot of money to be made from recycling to begin with, and it’s tough for recycled plastic to compete with virgin plastic made cheap by the boom in U.S. oil and gas production. And there aren’t nearly enough recyclers in the U.S. to handle the tsunami of new plastic pouring out of the petrochemical industry.

Material collected by TerraCycle is shredded for processing.

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Courtesy of TerraCycle

Collected material, including plastic, is baled at TerraCycle.

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Courtesy of TerraCycle

“Recycling is the underdog,” says Keefe Harrison, CEO of the Recycling Partnership, a nonprofit that seeks to boost the industry. “We’re fighting an uphill battle to make it cost competitive from day one.” One problem, she says, is the U.S. outsourced so much of its recycling to Asia that the domestic industry languished. And there’s the fact that plastic manufacturers keep making more and more of it, and consumer brands like Procter & Gamble, Nestlé and Walmart keep wrapping more consumer goods in it.

Harrison explains: “So we’ve got these companies producing this new packaging and new materials and new plastics in such a scientific- and business-driven way, and then [they] rely on the disjointed network that is recycling to get it back. And [recycling] is not robust.” That’s an assessment shared by others, such as global financial analysis company IHS Markit.

Several petrochemical companies have joined big consumer brands in pledging to make most of their plastic recyclable, reusable or compostable within the next decade or two. Their group, Alliance to End Plastic Waste, has promised to spend $1.5 billion over five years to do that.

But as environmental groups like Greenpeace and Break Free From Plastic point out, just because something can technically be recycled doesn’t mean it will be. There has to be an industry robust enough to do it — and a profit at the end of the day. And, they say, building up recycling allows plastic producers to keep making 300 million tons of new plastic every year (half of which is for single use) and to put the burden of cleaning up the waste on someone else.

Pochiro, of the Association of Plastic Recyclers, says recycling does need help — from consumers, for example. “We’re trying to make consumers understand that recycling isn’t just about putting your container in the bin,” she says. “You also need to buy recycled,” meaning products that contain recycled plastic.

There’s a growing market for such products, stuff like bottles, clothing, packaging or bags, for example. But it’s tough to compete against cheap virgin plastic. Recycling companies need huge investments, and to get that, they have to show they have a market for their products. And for that, Pochiro says, they need commitments — voluntary or mandated by law — by consumer goods companies to buy recycled plastic.

“If a recycler can’t be confident enough that they have a market for at least maybe six months to a year,” she says, “then they aren’t going to want to make that investment in their own facilities” to make more recycled plastic.

But there’s a disconnect underlying all this talk by the plastics industry to help recyclers and the circular economy of plastic.

A report from ICIS, a plastics market research company, says the petrochemical industry will likely double its plastic manufacturing capacity from 2016 to 2024. And the American Chemistry Council, which represents, among others, plastics manufacturers, says it expects industry to spend nearly $25 billion to build new plastic manufacturing capacity by 2025. (That compares with the $1.5 billion that the industry plans to spend on cleaning up plastic waste.) The World Economic Forum has issued a report on plastic that predicts a doubling of production in the next two decades.

One thing driving that growth is the belief that demand for petroleum-based fuels will decline — the oil and gas industry is looking to produce more plastics from petrochemicals to take up the slack.

So if a new circular plastics economy recycles — that is, reuses — more old plastic, why is the petrochemical industry spending billions of dollars for a boom in new plastic? Where is all that new plastic going to go? It seems the industry isn’t too worried. The American Chemistry Council’s analysis includes this statement about new plastic: “In a virtuous cycle, as the manufacturing renaissance accelerates, demand for plastic products will be generated, reinforcing resin [raw plastic] demand.”

Essentially, go ahead and make it, and people will find a way to use it.

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Business Roundtable Issues Statement On The Need To Help Deal With Income Inequality

A group of 181 CEOs have issued a statement proclaiming the need to help deal with income inequality and working conditions. NPR’s Mary Louise Kelly talks with New York Times reporter David Gelles.



MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:

The nation’s most powerful business executives have issued what amounts to a new mission statement. It moves away from the view that shareholder profits trump all other goals. The new statement out today and signed by executives on the Business Roundtable asserts the following. Quote, “Americans deserve an economy that allows each person to succeed through hard work and creativity and to lead a life of meaning and dignity.” Back in 1997, the Business Roundtable said the main objective of a business enterprise was to generate economic returns for its owners. Reporter David Gelles is following this story for The New York Times. He’s with us now.

Hey, David.

DAVID GELLES: Hi.

KELLY: What prompted this statement? Why now?

GELLES: For years now, business has been getting more and more wrapped up in some of the social and political debates roiling this country. And at a moment when Senator Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders are really pointing fingers at business, CEOs finally realized they needed to try to recast the public’s perception of what it is business is here for.

KELLY: Practically, does this change anything? What does this mission statement actually do?

GELLES: What they’re trying to do is not so much say – every one of these companies is going to adopt a certain policy. Instead, what they’re trying to do is redefine how the public thinks of what businesses are here for. For the longest time, there’s been this notion that the primary role of business is to increase shareholder value. Finally, businesses are getting around to saying, maybe that’s not all we’re supposed to be doing. Maybe we do need to be taking care of our workers. Maybe we do need to be taking care of the environment. Maybe we do need to be taking our suppliers and treating them fairly. Now, again, these are lofty sentiments. But we have yet to see is exactly how the Business Roundtable proposes all these companies go about doing that.

KELLY: Right. I can imagine some people listening might listen to the lofty sentiments and, even if they like them, say, how about some not quite so lofty but more practical sentiments like maybe pushing for a $15-an-hour minimum wage or paid paternal leave or other things that might practically help the lives of employees of these big corporations?

GELLES: I spoke to the CEOs of many of these companies today, and they’ll all be quick to point out, hey. We actually do take pretty good care of our workers. And, hey, we do have lofty and laudable parental and family leave. I think what we’re seeing, though, is a real disconnect between what individual companies do and how the broader business community is perceived by the public because we can see, even if one company has a great leave policy, we’re still at a moment when the divide between rich and poor is widening in this country and at a moment when the environmental problems we’re all facing collectively are getting worse. And so what they’re trying to do and are going to have to figure out is how to translate this sort of collective sentiment of goodwill into real action that everyday Americans sense when they go about their daily lives.

KELLY: Would I be completely cynical to ask if these CEOs might still have their eye on the bottom line in the sense that if they are seen as, quote, “good companies working in the greater public interest” that that might, ultimately, be good for the bottom line?

GELLES: I don’t even think that’s cynical. They would agree with you. They would say that, hey. If we take good care of our employees and we take good care of the environment, ultimately, in the long term, we’re going to have a better and more sustainable business.

KELLY: That’s David Gelles, business reporter for The New York Times. He’s got a column there called Corner Office.

David Gelles, thanks.

GELLES: Thank you.

(SOUNDBITE OF WEI, THE FIELD TAPES AND PORT GEORGE’S “BORDERS”)

Copyright © 2019 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

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Planned Parenthood May Reject Federal Funds Over Changes To Title X

It appears some health care providers that offer birth control, such as Planned Parenthood, are going to withdraw from the federal Title X program. Changes to Title X take effect Monday.



NOEL KING, HOST:

About 4 million low-income Americans get birth control and other kinds of reproductive health care through a federal program called Title X. The Trump administration is making some changes to that program, and they’re set to take effect today. Because of those changes, Planned Parenthood and some other providers say they’re going to withdraw from Title X. NPR correspondent Sarah McCammon covers reproductive rights. She’s with me now. Hi, Sarah.

SARAH MCCAMMON, BYLINE: Good morning.

KING: So a lot at stake here, apparently. What exactly is changing with Title X today?

MCCAMMON: Well, today is a key deadline that the Trump administration has set for recipients of these Title X funds to confirm that they’re making a good faith effort to comply with new rules set by the administration for the program. And that means it’s likely that a substantial number of health care providers around the country that provide these services, most notably Planned Parenthood clinics, are going to withdraw from the Title X program by the end of the day, at least that’s the way it appears.

This is a big program, Noel. It’s $286 million each year. It covers contraceptive services, STD screenings – things like that. And under these new rules, any organization that provides abortions or advises patients on how to get them – except in a few cases like rape, incest and medical emergencies – will not be able to get these funds to provide other services.

KING: OK, so Planned Parenthood is a huge organization. It is used – its services are used by a lot of women. It’s refusing to comply with these rules. Why?

MCCAMMON: Right. Well, they call the rule a gag rule. I spoke with Planned Parenthood’s acting president, Alexis McGill Johnson, and she said it interferes with the doctor-patient relationship.

ALEXIS MCGILL JOHNSON: Imagine if you show up as a patient to a health center and the doctor’s only ability is to refer you to prenatal care, and you may have already decided that you would like to have an abortion, federal regulations will ban that doctor from actually giving you the advice and referring you to abortion.

MCCAMMON: And Planned Parenthood made a last-ditch plea last week to a federal appeals court asking them to block the rule. That request was turned down on Friday. And Planned Parenthood had said this will effectively force them out of Title X, which is a pretty big deal because the organization has been a major part of the program for decades, and they say they serve about 40% of those 4 million people nationwide who get those services through this program.

And while it’s not just Planned Parenthood, for example, Maine Family Planning and some other organizations are also pulling out.

KING: Just quickly – what is the Trump administration saying in response to these groups saying, we’re just not going to be a part of this?

MCCAMMON: Well, they say that all providers of reproductive health care through this program just have to comply with the rule – either stop performing abortions or referring patients for them, and they can stay in. In a statement, the administration said that Planned Parenthood is, quote, “actually choosing to place a higher priority on the ability to refer for abortion instead of continuing to receive federal funds.”

The rule is a big victory, too, for opponents of abortion rights, who’ve pushed for a long time to cut public dollars to Planned Parenthood. I talked to a spokeswoman for the anti-abortion group the SBA List this weekend. She said Planned Parenthood is demonstrating, quote, “how committed they are to performing abortion.”

KING: But what does this mean for all of those low-income patients who use Title X?

MCCAMMON: It’s not entirely clear what happens next. Planned Parenthood and Maine Family Planning, for example, had stopped using these funds already a few weeks ago and were patching through with other types of funding. But I’m told that cannot continue indefinitely, so some services may be scaled back or cut. Patients may have to pay more for things like birth control.

And the groups that support this rule, though, are pointing out that there are thousands of other organizations, like community health centers, that don’t offer abortions that also get these funds. But a lot of patients go to Planned Parenthood and similar groups, and they’re used to going there for this kind of care, so this does represent a big shift. We’re also expecting to hear more from Planned Parenthood today about their legal strategy and how they plan to move forward now that this rule is taking effect.

KING: All right, we’ll keep an eye on that. NPR correspondent Sarah McCammon. Thanks, Sarah.

MCCAMMON: Thank you.

Copyright © 2019 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

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Reddit’s Alexis Ohanian On His Push For Paternity Leave

NPR’s Michel Martin speaks with Reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian about his article in The New York Times advocating for increased paternity leave.



MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:

We’ve been talking a lot on this program lately about work and family and choices – how working parents are maneuvering to keep all the moving parts of their lives functioning together. Today we want to talk about another key element – fathers, more specifically, paternity leave. There’s a growing body of research about the benefits of men taking time off after the birth or adoption of a child, and yet the research also says that 76% of American fathers are back to work within a week. My next guest wants to change that.

Alexis Ohanian is the co-founder of Reddit and the venture capital firm Initialized Capital, and he also happens to be married to one of the world’s most high-profile working women out there, tennis champion Serena Williams. The two welcomed a daughter in 2017, but you may remember that Serena experienced life-threatening complications. Ohanian wound up taking 16 weeks of paternity leave to care for them both, and he’s now a vocal advocate of other fathers doing the same. He wrote an article about this published in The New York Times a few days ago.

And Alexis Ohanian is with us now. Thank you so much for talking to us.

ALEXIS OHANIAN: Oh, thank you for having me, Michel.

MARTIN: So you mentioned in your article that Reddit already offered paternity leave, but it wasn’t your idea. And you say you never thought much about it. So why did Reddit offer it? Did you feel it was competitively necessary? Was it good PR? As you point out, it certainly is not the law in the United States.

OHANIAN: Yeah. Well, you know, at the time, when I came back to help lead the Reddit turnaround in 2014, there was literally no HR team. There was no policy. And one of our early hires, a woman Katelin Holloway came in. And she brought with her a sort of big old book of policy guidelines for the company. And when she presented the 16 weeks, I didn’t think much of it other than, OK, that seems reasonable because the war for talent is so great in tech. Benefits like paid leave are one of the big levers that we all, well, basically have to have in order to convince folks to not only join but also retain them in the long term.

MARTIN: And as I mentioned, and as many people remember, Serena Williams suffered serious complications, which I have to say sparked a whole other conversation about the state of maternal health in this country, including a whole – the whole issue of racial disparity.

OHANIAN: Especially among women of color.

MARTIN: Especially among women of color. But – so that’s another issue. But – forgive me, I have to ask. Do you honestly think if she had not been so seriously ill, do you think you would have taken your whole leave?

OHANIAN: Absolutely. And I know that because I had already made the plans. I remember asking Katelin about a month before Olympia was due to put me through the process just like any other employee at the company. And at the time I really just thought, I’m doing this because I know I’m never going to get this time again. And why not?

MARTIN: And you point out that that is unusual. I mean, you say in your piece – and I think the research is very clear – that even when companies offer paid leave, men don’t take advantage of it. They certainly don’t take their full leave. Why is that?

OHANIAN: Well, there is a stigma around it. And for me, I knew I had to do it. Look – leaders have to lead. And as a leader within the organization, I wanted to give cover for everyone – men and women – to take full advantage of the policy because, at the end of the day, I think that that stigma remains until enough of us – and then I do mean in particular like male executives – can lead by example and show that we can take this time, be away from the office, be there for our families and still be just as driven, still be just as motivated and not have it be perceived as a weakness.

And so we’ve had three new parents actually at Initialized – three dads who all were on leave at the same time. And for each of them, they chose to create a different plan for themselves that made sense for their family. So if they wanted to be off for a month and then use the next three months’ worth of leave by just taking off every Thursday, Friday, great. And I think that dynamic really supports the families and lets these employees, when they’re in the office, actually do their best work.

MARTIN: You know, I can see where somebody’s listening to our conversation might be saying, well, I mean, of course you took leave – you’re the boss. I mean, of course you took leave – I mean, Serena Williams, excuse me. But I can also see where it cuts the other way. I can also see where somebody might say, well, I can’t leave, I’m the boss. It’s not just my family depending on me. My employees are depending on me. My shareholders are depending on me. So I guess what I’m asking you is, do you have some advice for fathers to help them make this happen, particularly for people who, as you point out, are afraid they might lose their jobs?

OHANIAN: There are really important protections that are in place. When it comes to taking this kind of leave, We don’t want to see it affect anyone’s job, a man or a woman, right? And so I really believe that this is a cultural shift that is happening. And look. I’ve been a CEO. I run a company to this day. And we work with dozens of some really amazing CEOs within our Initialized portfolio. And I would give all of them and anyone listening the same advice, which is do what you need to do in order to support both your family and your business, your startup, your company because the two are far more intertwined than I think historically we’ve given them credit for. And the reality is doing what’s best for your family and for your sort of personal well-being is oftentimes actually also going to be what’s best for the business.

MARTIN: That’s Alexis Ohanian. He’s the co-founder of Reddit and the venture capital firm Initialized Capital. Mr. Ohanian, thanks so much for talking with us.

OHANIAN: Oh, thank you very much, Michel.

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No Mercy: After The Hospital Closes, How Do People Get Emergency Care?

Mercy Hospital Fort Scott closed in December, leaving Fort Scott Kan., without its longtime provider of emergency medical services.

Sarah Jane Tribble for Kaiser Health News


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Sarah Jane Tribble for Kaiser Health News

For more than 30 minutes on a frigid February morning, Robert Findley lay unconscious in the back of an ambulance as paramedics hand-pumped oxygen into his lungs.

They were waiting for a helicopter to land at a helipad just across the icy parking lot next to Mercy Hospital Fort Scott, which closed in December. The night before, Findley had fallen on the slick driveway outside his home while checking the mail. He had laughed it off, ate dinner and went to bed.

In the morning, he wouldn’t wake up. Linda, his wife, called 911.

When the Fort Scott, Kan., paramedics arrived, they suspected he had an intracerebral hemorrhage. Robert Findley needed specialized neurological care and the closest available center was located 90 miles north in Kansas City, Mo.

After rural hospitals like the one in Fort Scott close, one of the thorniest dilemmas communities face is how to provide emergency care, particularly for patients who require specialized expertise. In times of crisis, the local emergency workers can find themselves dealing with changing leadership, budgets and questions about where to take patients. Air ambulance companies are often seen as a key part of the solution.

The dispatcher for Air Methods, a private air ambulance company, checked with at least four bases before finding a pilot to accept the flight for Robert Findley, according to a 911 tape obtained by Kaiser Health News through a Kansas Open Records Act request.

Linda Findley’s husband, Robert, opened Findley Body Repair in 1975. Linda says she doesn’t know what she’s going to do with the Fort Scott, Kan., business. She kept two workers on for six weeks after Robert’s death to close out active orders. “I guess I’ll have to have an auction someday,” Findley says.

Christopher Smith for Kaiser Health News


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My Nevada crew is not available and my Parsons crew has declined,” the operator tells Fort Scott’s emergency line about a minute after taking the call. Then she says she will be “reaching out to” another crew.

Nearly seven minutes passed before one was en route.

When Linda Findley sat at her kitchen counter in late May and listened to the 911 tape, she blinked hard: “I didn’t know that they could just refuse. … I don’t know what to say about that.”

Both Mercy and Air Methods declined to comment on the case.

When Mercy Hospital Fort Scott closed at the end of 2018, hospital president Reta Baker had been “absolutely terrified” about the possibility of not having emergency care for a community where she had raised her children and grandchildren and served as chair of the local Chamber of Commerce.

Now, just a week after the ER’s closure, her fears were being tested.

Nationwide, more than 100 rural hospitals have closed since 2010, and in each instance a community struggles to survive in its own way. In Fort Scott, home to 7,800, the loss of its 132-year-old hospital opened by nuns in the 19th century has wrought profound social, emotional and medical consequences. Kaiser Health News and NPR are following Fort Scott for a year to explore deeper national questions about whether small communities need a traditional hospital at all. If not, what would take its place?

A delay in emergency care can make the difference between life and death. Seconds can be crucial when it comes to surviving a heart attack, a stroke, an anaphylactic allergic reaction or a complicated birth.

Though air ambulances can transport patients quickly, the dispatch system is not coordinated in many states and regions across the country. And many air ambulance companies do not participate in insurance networks, which leads to bills of tens of thousands of dollars.

Knowing that emergency care was crucial, the hospital’s owner, St. Louis-based Mercy, agreed to keep Fort Scott’s emergency doors open an extra month past the hospital’s Dec. 31 closure, to give Baker time to find a temporary operator. A last-minute deal was struck with a hospital about 30 miles away to take it over, but the ER still needed to be remodeled and the new operator had to meet regulatory requirements. So, the ER closed for 18 days — a period that proved perilous.

A risky experiment

During that time, Fort Scott’s publicly funded ambulances responded to more than 80 calls for service and drove more than 1,300 miles for patients to get care in other communities.

Across America, rural patients spend more time in an ambulance than urban patients after a hospital closes, said Alison Davis, a professor at the University of Kentucky’ department of agriculture economics. Davis and research associate SuZanne Troske analyzed thousands of ambulance calls and found the average transport time for a rural patient was 14.2 minutes before a hospital closed; afterward, it increased nearly 77% to 25.1 minutes. For patients over 64, the increase was steeper, nearly doubling.

In Fort Scott this February, the hospital’s closure meant people didn’t “know what to expect if we come pick them up,” or where they might end up, said Fort Scott paramedic Chris Rosenblad.

During 18-day gap in ER services, Barbara Woodward slipped on ice outside a downtown Fort Scott business. She was driven 30 miles out of town of care. “I thought to myself that the back of the ambulance isn’t as comfortable as I thought it would be,” Woodward says.

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Barbara Woodward, 70, slipped on ice outside a downtown Fort Scott business during the early February storm. The former X-ray technician said she knew something was broken. That meant a “bumpy” and painful 30-mile drive to a nearby town, where she had emergency surgery for a shattered femur, a bone in her thigh.

About 60% of calls to the Fort Scott’s ambulances in early February were transported out of town, according to the log, which KHN requested through the Kansas Open Records Act. The calls include a 41-year-old with chest pain who was taken more than 30 miles to Pittsburg, an unconscious 11-year-old driven 20 miles to Nevada, Mo., and a 19-year-old with a seizure and bleeding eyes escorted nearly 30 miles to Girard, Kan.

Traveling those distances can harm patients’ health when they are experiencing a traumatic event, Davis said. They also prompt other, less obvious, problems for a community. The travel time keeps the crews absent and unable to serve local needs. Plus, those miles cause expensive emergency vehicles to wear out faster.

Mercy donated its ambulances to the joint city and county emergency operations department. Bourbon County Commissioner Lynne Oharah said he’s not sure how they will pay for upkeep and the buying of future vehicles. Mercy had previously owned and maintained the fleet, but now it falls to the taxpayers to support the crew and ambulances. “This was dropped on us,” said LeRoy “Nick” Ruhl, also a county commissioner.

Barbara Woodward’s bumpy ride was just the beginning of a difficult journey. She had shattered her femur and had trouble healing after an emergency surgery. In May, Woodward had a full hip replacement in Kansas City, Kan.

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Even local law enforcement feel extra pressure when an ER closes down, said Bourbon County Sheriff Bill Martin. Suspects who overdose or suffer split lips and black eyes after a fight need medical attention before getting locked up — that often forces officers to escort them to another community for emergency treatment.

And Bourbon County, with its 14,600 residents, faces the same dwindling tax base as most of rural America. According to the U.S. Census, about 3.4% fewer people live in the county compared with nearly a decade ago. Before the hospital closed, Bourbon County paid Mercy $316,000 annually for emergency medical services. In April, commissioners approved an annual $1 million budget item to oversee ambulances and staffing, which the city of Fort Scott agreed to operate.

In order to make up the nearly $700,000 difference in the budget, Oharah said the county is counting on the ambulances to transport patients to hospitals. The transports are essential because ambulance services get better reimbursement from Medicare and private insurers when they take patients to a hospital as compared to when they treat patients at home or at an accident scene.

Added response times

For time-sensitive emergencies, Fort Scott’s 911 dispatch calls go to Air Methods, one of the largest for-profit air ambulance providers in the U.S. It has a base 20 miles away in Nevada, Mo., and another base in Parsons, Kan., about 60 miles away.

The company’s central communications hub, known as AirCom, in Omaha, Neb., gathers initial details of an incident before contacting the pilot at the nearest base to confirm response, said Megan Smith, a spokeswoman for the company. The entire process happens in less than five minutes, Smith said in an emailed statement.

When asked how quickly the helicopter arrived for Robert Findley, Bourbon County EMS Director Robert Leisure said he was “unsure of the time the crew waited at the pad.” But, he added, “the wait time was very minimal.”

Rural communities nationwide are increasingly dependent on air ambulances as local hospitals close, said Rick Sherlock, president of the Association of Air Medical Services, an industry group that represents the air ambulance industry. AAMS estimates that nearly 85 million Americans rely on the mostly hospital-based and private industry to reach a high-level trauma center within 60 minutes, or what the industry calls the “golden hour.”

In June, when Sherlock testified to Congress about high-priced air ambulance billing, he pointed to Fort Scott as a devastated rural community where air service “helped fill the gap in rural health care.”

But, as Robert Findley’s case shows, the gap is often difficult to fill. After Air Methods’ two bases failed to accept the flight, the AirCom operator called at least two more before finding a ride for the patient. Air ambulances can be delayed because of bad weather or crew fatigue from previous runs.

The 1978 Airline Deregulation Act states that airline companies cannot be regulated on “rates, routes, or services,” a provision originally meant to ensure that commercial flights could move efficiently between states. Today, in practice, that means air ambulances have no mandated response times, there are no requirements that the closest aircraft will come, and they aren’t legally obligated to say why a flight was declined.

The air ambulance industry has faced years of scrutiny over accidents, including investigations by the National Transportation Safety Board and stricter rules from the Federal Aviation Administration. And Air Methods’ Smith said the company does not publicly report on why flights are turned down

because “we don’t want pilots to feel pressured to fly in unsafe conditions.”

Yet, a lack of accountability can lead the mostly for-profit providers to sometimes putting profits first, Scott Winston, Virginia’s assistant director of emergency medical services, wrote in an email. Sometimes companies accept a call knowing their closest aircraft is unavailable, rather than lose the business. “This could result in added response time,” he wrote.

Air ambulances don’t face the detailed reporting requirements imposed on ground ambulances. The National Emergency Medical Services Information System collects only about 50% of air ambulance events because the industry’s private operators voluntarily provide the information.

Ascension Via Christi’s Pittsburg, Kan., hospital took over responsibility for ER services in Fort Scott, Kan., after that town’s only hospital closed.

Christopher Smith for Kaiser Health News


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Saving lives

It took months, but Baker persuaded Ascension Via Christi’s Pittsburg hospital, to reopen the ER. “They kind of were at a point of desperation,” said Randy Cason, president of Pittsburg’s hospital. The two Catholic health systems signed a two-year agreement, leaving Fort Scott relieved but nervous about the long term.

Ascension has said it is looking at potential facilities in the area, but it’s unclear what that means. Fort Scott Economic Development Director Rachel Pruitt said in a July 23 email, “No decisions have been made.” Fort Scott City Manager Dave Martin said the city has entered into a “nondisclosure agreement” with Ascension. Nancy Dickey, executive director of the Texas A&M Rural & Community Health Institute, said every community prioritizes emergency services. That’s because the “first hour appears to be vitally important in terms of outcomes,” she said.

And the Fort Scott ER, which reopened under Ascension on Feb. 18, has proved its value. In the past six months, the Fort Scott emergency department has taken care of more than 2,500 patients, including delivering three babies. In May, a city ambulance crew resuscitated a heart attack patient at his home and Ascension’s emergency department staff treated the patient until an air ambulance arrived.

In July, Fort Scott’s Deputy Fire Chief Dave Bruner read a note from that patient’s grateful wife at a city commission meeting: “They gave my husband the chance to fight long enough to get to Freeman ICU. As a nurse, I know the odds of Kevin surviving the ‘widow-maker’ were very poor. You all made the difference.”

Robert Findley died after falling on the ice during a winter storm this February in Fort Scott, Kan. Mercy Hospital had recently closed, so he had to be flown to a neurology center 90 miles north in Kansas City, Mo.

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By contrast, Linda Findley believes the local paramedics did everything possible to save her husband but wonders how the lack of an ER and the air ambulance delays might have affected her husband’s outcome. After being flown to Kansas City, Robert Findley died.

Kaiser Health News is a nonprofit news service covering health issues. It is an editorially independent program of the Kaiser Family Foundation that is not affiliated with Kaiser Permanente.

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