The U.S. men’s soccer team failed to qualify for the World Cup, the Boy Scouts are letting girls join their ranks and Eminem has a bone to pick with the president. CNN’s AJ Willingham, The Guardian‘s Les Carpenter and columnist Gustavo Arellano discuss.

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:

Now it’s time for the Barbershop. That’s where we gather interesting folks to talk about what’s in the news and what’s on their minds. Sitting in the chairs for a shapeup today are Les Carpenter. He is a writer for The Guardian, and he’s with us from our studios in Washington, D.C. Les, welcome. Thanks for joining us.

LES CARPENTER: Welcome. Thank you.

MARTIN: All right. Also with us, writer and journalist Gustavo Arellano. He’s known for his nationally syndicated column “Ask A Mexican” and his book “Taco Usa: How Mexican Food Conquered America.” He’s with us from KUCI in Irvine, Calif. Gustavo, welcome back.

GUSTAVO ARELLANO: Hola, Michel.

MARTIN: And welcome back to CNN writer AJ Willingham, who joins us from WCLK in Atlanta. AJ, good to have you back with us as well.

AJ WILLINGHAM: Good afternoon, Michel.

MARTIN: So let’s start the conversation today with what is an open wound for American soccer fans. For the first time since 1986, the U.S. men’s soccer team failed to qualify for the World Cup. They lost 2-1 to Trinidad and Tobago, a team that many felt they could handle. On Friday, U.S. coach Bruce Arena announced his resignation. And…

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

BRUCE ARENA: It’s a blemish for us. We should not be staying home for this World Cup.

MARTIN: AJ, I’m going to start with you because you focus on sports. What happened here? And I also want to mention that he said also in the same press conference that there was no need for a lot to change. So what happened, and is he right, does nothing need to change?

WILLINGHAM: I think it really depends on what sort of scale we’re looking at. We’re really talking about a matter of scale. What happened is, you know, if Clint Dempsey’s goal had gone in, we would have been going to Russia, but it didn’t. Is that where the conversation stops? Obviously not. Nothing has to change, now, in retrospect, feels like sort of the wrong thing to say. I think that that’s, you know, quite clear that that’s not the case. But what I think happened here is that there is just a lack of passion, both in playing and a lack of an understanding, that if we didn’t make the World Cup, that it would be such a huge deal and such a national embarrassment and such a wake-up call to, you know, to what soccer looks like at a national level for us to what it looks like to viewers and to potential fans and just all up and down the line. And really, I mean, choose where you want to come in on this because, like I said, it’s a matter of inches or it’s a matter of hundreds and thousands of viewers.

MARTIN: So, Les, you wrote – you’ve gotten a lot of attention for a story that you wrote last year on American soccer’s diversity problem. I mean, your piece argued that soccer in the U.S., unlike the rest of the world, is kind of a white upper-class-suburban sport. And that kind of hurts the – it just hurts the sort of the pool of players, the talent that would be available. You want to talk a little bit more about that?

CARPENTER: Well, it not only hurts the pool of players, it also hurts the idea of a culture, which is what I think U.S. Soccer really needs to be looking at right now. It’s not such a matter of, oh, we’re just a couple inches away against Trinidad and Tobago. We could have just gone to another World Cup. It’s a matter of, what kind of style does the U.S. play? Who is us trying to be? And I think that soccer’s played great by Latinos who have come to this country and a lot of places that don’t have access to what’s become a pay-for-play system in this country. You have so many of these leagues right now where if you’re rich, you have a lot of money, you can get on a team. And if you’re halfway good, you have a good chance of getting to a big college, getting seen by the national team people.

But what happens to all these people that have come from Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, where the kids, you know, from those families are playing just on the streets? They don’t have access to the system, and yet, their style is so free, and it’s what’s played around the rest of the world. The U.S. is very robotic. And I feel like what we see now, the culture and the style and the U.S. is Americanized. We’ve taken soccer and just coached it coached and coached it, so you don’t really have that free kind of open style that you have elsewhere, and it’s starting to hurt at this level.

MARTIN: OK. But let me just raise one issue here, which is that you look at the U.S. women’s gymnastics team that competed so successfully at the last Olympics, 3 of the 5 people on that team were girls of color. It’s an extremely expensive sport. So what is the deal with that? You know, these are also people who, you know, Gabby Douglas made no secret of the fact that this was tremendously costly to her family, but somehow she was able to get there. So what’s the difference, you know what I mean?

CARPENTER: Well, obviously, it’s – even for wealthy families, these things are going to be extremely expensive.

MARTIN: She’s not wealthy.

CARPENTER: But, I mean, there’s – the action – the commitment has been there from her parents. I mean, you’re talking in many cases with soccer about people who have come to this country with nothing or people who have almost nothing and their kids are wonderful, wonderful players, but they can’t get into that system. It’s a big – obviously, you’re looking at a much bigger pool – in gymnastics where you’re – it’s a tiny group of players – athletes. With soccer, it’s a massive, massive group. And yet, these kids don’t have a shot at even just the basic level of organized soccer that gets you seen to that level where Gabby Douglas is training in a high level play for the U.S. Olympic team. You don’t have the access to be seen in this country at that level.

MARTIN: Gustavo, what do you think?

ARELLANO: First and foremost, respect to all the Trinnies (ph) out there for their amazing victory over the U.S.

MARTIN: True that.

ARELLANO: I had a huge bowl of callaloo in their honor, so God bless them for that. I agreed with everything that Les said. I mean, this is what it boils down to. Why should – I mean, we have immigrant populations who are crazy about soccer, that are playing on the field at parks all across the United States from New York City down here to Santa Ana in Orange County. They’re playing all the time. And they’re playing in leagues. They are playing in their own leagues that are way cheaper than whatever leagues you need to get into U.S. soccer. So the parents are going to say, well, why should my kids play in the expensive leagues when you could just play at the Saturday leagues?

More importantly though, a lot of – and this is a big problem that I think U.S. Soccer still has to solve and they can’t – a lot of these players, if they could get dual citizenship, if you ask your typical Mexican-American kid right now, if you want to be a great soccer player, would you play for the Mexican squad, El Tri, or are you going to play for the United States? Ninety percent of them would go to El Tri, not just out of loyalty but also because, frankly, El Tri’s going to be a better team than the U.S. But then, you know, and I also have to say, Mexicans are so happy that the United States is not going into the World Top. That said, us Mexicans, we have our own problems as well so we could be happy about that, but whatever. We’re going to flame out in the second round like we do every year or every Cup, I mean.

MARTIN: (Laughter) All right. Well, you know, let me just point out – AJ, let me go back to you on this – a lot of people were quick to point out that one American soccer team still has a shot to make their World Cup. The women’s team went undefeated in 2015 and won the World Cup. So, AJ, is there something that the men can learn from the women, or is the same problem going to catch up with them? Because it has not escaped, I think, anybody’s attention who’s paying attention that the women’s team isn’t particularly diverse either.

WILLINGHAM: What I’m thinking about this, Michel, what I’m thinking is you have to make good soccer in order for people to want to watch good soccer. And there are two things that you can do to make that happen. You either have to be successful, win your games, you know, get those goals in, or you have to be newsworthy. And I think that one thing the U.S. women’s national team has going for them is that they are both of those things. They’re successful, and they are newsworthy off the field. They, you know, they keep the names in the news.

I feel like if you asked a casual viewer who Alex Morgan was, asked a casual viewer who Clint Dempsey, was maybe they know both of them, but I feel like because of the U.S. women’s national team’s success, they know a little bit more about the women. They know a little bit more about what it means to, you know, to cheer for them and to root for them. And so to me, that’s the big sort of thing is that you’re winning games but then you’re keeping yourself in the news. You’re keeping yourself in the headlines, and you’re you’re keeping people’s interest. And I think that those two things feed off of each other.

MARTIN: Let me move to another topic this Wednesday. The Boy Scouts said that girls can now join. And some people were saying that’s cool girls can be Eagle Scouts now, and that’s nice. And for families who maybe have multiple kids, they think that’s great. I only have to go to one community center on the weekends and that’s good for me. But others are not happy including, Girl Scouts USA. And, AJ, sticking with you – sort of focusing on you today, sorry to be sort of giving you the burden of the whole thing, carrying the ball as it were – but you co-authored a piece on CNN this week highlighting some of the negative responses to this. And what’s your take on it?

WILLINGHAM: Yes. So obviously, the Girl Scouts are not going to be happy about this. I want to give them credit. They have certainly done a lot in the last couple of years to try and boost membership. It’s no secret that membership for both the gender scouting sort of organizations have been down over decades. It’s just, you know, it’s something that’s very difficult to modernize. So they have definitely done their part. They brought in consultants. They diversified their programs. But what they did is that they took away some of the attention from outdoor activities. They took away some of that attention from some of the more adventurous programs.

Like I said, it went to other things, but so the Boy Scouts, seeing their numbers go down and seeing their own numbers being hurt by some of the more recent scandals, thus is a perfect opportunity for them to come in. They have the outdoor stuff that a lot of young women are going to be interested in. And most importantly, they have the Eagle Scout designation. And that is something that the Girl Scouts have not been able to replicate, even though they have the wonderful Gold Award. In the culture – in our culture, it is not as prestigiously sort of looked at as that Eagle Scout award, and that is the big thing.

MARTIN: But, you know, Gustavo, do you want to talk about that for a second? You know, they – but the Girl Scouts have other things which is that they have a track record – it’s – an incredible number of women in high levels of achievement have been Girl Scouts. And I don’t know. What’s your take on this?

ARELLANO: Yeah, no, I love the Girl Scouts. You know…

MARTIN: The cookies especially.

ARELLANO: …I buy hundreds of dollars of cookies. And not just the cookies, they also have their nuts sale right now for the winter, so people should be buying those as well. But I have seen so many young women be transformed by the Girl Scouts. And I’ve seen like – they do – they’ve always been a far more progressive organization than the Boy Scouts. What amazes me most about this is how much the Boy Scouts has changed within a generation. About 25 years ago or so, there was a national story that came out of Orange County where there was two scouts who were atheist and they just – they would not say the Pledge of Allegiance or they wouldn’t say under God in the Pledge of Allegiance, so the Boy Scouts at the time booted them.

In a generation, now you’ve gone from such like backward opportunistic ways to the Boy Scouts saying, hey, like, let’s also include girls in there as well. And, of course, it’s all for money. It’s all for getting more membership in there. But yeah, I mean, people – the Girls Scouts is an amazing organization. They really focused on, yeah, let’s teach our young women out there of all colors, of, you know, of everything, let’s teach them skills that they’re going to go out and, you know, make better people in society. Nothing against the outdoors but camping, yeah, it’s nice but it’s not going to get you a job.

MARTIN: Les, what do you think about this?

CARPENTER: You know, I’m thinking about my 7-year-old daughter. She’s never gotten into scouting. Thank God we haven’t had to cross that bridge yet. But honestly, I think she’d be more interested in what the Boy Scouts offer than what the Girl Scouts offer.

MARTIN: Because?

CARPENTER: Because I think she’s that kind of a person. She’s very adventurous. She wants to try things. She’s the kind of girl who would, you know, see a gondola, you know, 20 feet up in the air and say, hey, I’d like to jump in that and see where it goes. I mean, so I think that what the Boy Scouts offer will be far more interesting to her than what the Girl Scouts offer. And I know it’s a massive generalization, but I think this is something that she would think was a lot of fun.

MARTIN: I’ll have to arrange an escort to get you out of the building because there are a lot of Girl Scout parents and Scout leaders in there. I’ll see what I can do.

WILLINGHAM: Michel.

MARTIN: Go ahead, AJ.

WILLINGHAM: Michel, I want to go really quickly back to the negative reaction.

MARTIN: Sure.

WILLINGHAM: Obviously, a lot of people on social media, a lot of people in the general conversation sort of, you know, thinking that this is going to somehow rend the gender binary because we’re going to have boys in the Girl Scouts and, you know, boys and girls, and they could just be anywhere together now. I think what people forget is that girls have been in Boy Scouting programs now for a century. You know, they allow girls in the venturing program. And so it’s really not – yes – is it a big move? Yes, but it’s not unprecedented in their history to have girls participate in their activities. I think people forget that.

MARTIN: I confess, I was one that forgot that, so thank you for bringing that up. Before we let you go, gosh, I only have a minute left. So, Gustavo, I’m going to go to you on this. Eminem – I think by now, people have heard about his kind of scathing rap about President Trump at the BET Awards earlier this week. And I wanted to ask you your take on that.

ARELLANO: I love it. I know people are criticizing it because he gets the attention, not other rappers of color. I’ll say what I said on Code Switch a couple of months ago. Sometimes you need those people to go out and to places or to people that don’t want to listen to your message. Eminem has a huge suburban white audience. These people worship him as a god. And for him to be saying all those things about our current president, it comes as a shock to them, but they listen to him. They would not listen to the people. So good job, Eminem.

MARTIN: Because you agree with him, but what if you didn’t? Would you be offended?

ARELLANO: If I – if he supported Trump?

MARTIN: Yeah.

ARELLANO: Oh, well, then I wouldn’t like him.

(LAUGHTER)

ARELLANO: I mean, I like Eminem. You know, I’m for any of these entertainers who take stands, whether they’re good or not, because they are risking their fans. I mean, look at what’s happening with the NFL, I mean, with (unintelligible) and everything like that. They are taking their stand. And according to some people – I don’t got the stats – but, you know, they’re losing fans and all that, but at least they’re taking that position though.

MARTIN: Oh, I hear. All right. Well, that’s your – thanks for your take on that. That’s Gustavo Arellano. He’s an author and nationally syndicated columnist. Les Carpenter is a writer for The Guardian. AJ Willingham is a writer for CNN. Thank you all so much for joining us.

CARPENTER: Thank you.

ARELLANO: Gracias.

WILLINGHAM: Thank you, Michel.

(SOUNDBITE OF EMINEM’S “THE REAL SLIM SHADY”)

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NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

Last night was one of the worst in U.S. men’s soccer history. An embarrassing loss to Trinidad and Tobago means the team will not make the World Cup for the first time since 1986. What happens now?

ROBERT SIEGEL, HOST:

If you listen very closely to this next highlight, you can hear the sound of millions of U.S. soccer fans tearing their hair out.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Long distance blast, and it’s Alvin Jones – one for the legend books. Oh, my, his first Trinidadian goal, and he might as well retire right now.

SIEGEL: The second goal for tiny Trinidad and Tobago clinched the match against the United States men’s team last night, and it kept the U.S. out of the World Cup for the first time since 1986. Well, now fans and experts alike are wondering what happened, and one of those experts joins us now. He’s Roger Bennett, a co-host of the “Men In Blazers” show and podcast on NBC Sports. Thanks for joining us today.

ROGER BENNETT: I’d like to say it’s a pleasure, Robert, but to hear that open wound of a goal and live it out again after the night that we all went through – the American football community – these are dark times.

SIEGEL: Well, to put this in context, just how bad a loss was this for the U.S. men’s team?

BENNETT: It was a debacle. It was an Armageddon. It was an apocalypse. It was a night in which so many results had to go against the U.S. for them to fail to qualify. And slowly, as if there was no such thing as free will but we were all just doomed by fate, all those results did start to slide. And I know that it’s only a game of football. I keep telling myself that. But it feels so much more. It’s simply devastating, the result, to those of us who care about the game in America and its future.

SIEGEL: I’m a sports fan but a very casual soccer fan. This is not something that I watch closely. But every time I’ve watched a soccer match in recent years, Tim Howard has been in the net, been the goalkeeper for the United States. Is that a sign that he is the greatest goalkeeper around or that the U.S. has a very old goalkeeper playing every year?

BENNETT: Tim Howard is an incredible servant for U.S. soccer. The night of the World Cup against Belgium – that’s how I’d like to remember him, for the save after save after save as he played lights out. This was not his finest moment. It’s not just him. With a manager that they changed to mid-cycle, a gentleman, Bruce Arena, who’d led them wonderfully in the early 2000s and in players that he then picked, it was a little bit of a reversion of what we used to know. And the U.S. Soccer Federation, at all levels, perhaps could be accused of worshipping the old gods. And now it needs to work out the new.

What I will say – in this moment of darkness, we really should usher in the light. Other teams – Germany – when they had a national debacle in 2000, it triggered a national soul searching about how they train their players, how they coach them, how they recruit them. And I believe that the U.S. have a true opportunity that they can do something similar here.

SIEGEL: Well, I mean, what does U.S. men’s soccer do at this point? Do you fire the coach? Do you change the way the team trains or the way it’s selected? Do you decide this is a disaster; we’ve got to zero it out and start all over again? What?

BENNETT: It’s not a birth right to qualify to the World Cup. We have had a remarkable run – seven straight tournaments. And no team qualifies forever, Robert. And Chile failed this time around. The (unintelligible) Netherlands failed. The World Cup’s still going to be massive in America. It will still be a television ratings buster. But this was always going to have seismic repercussions for all levels of the game.

SIEGEL: Boy, listening to you, I’m feeling worse and worse and worse. This is just disastrous what happened last night.

BENNETT: That’s what I’m here for, Robert.

SIEGEL: Yeah, that’s what you’re here for.

BENNETT: Thank you very much. And good luck.

SIEGEL: Roger Bennett, co-host of the “Men In Blazers” podcast and show on NBC Sports spoke to us via Skype.

BENNETT: Courage.

Copyright © 2017 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

The Major League Baseball Playoffs have started, while in hockey Las Vegas played Dallas after the week’s massacre.

SCOTT SIMON, HOST:

I’m Scott Simon. Just when we need it – time for sports.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

SIMON: The Major League playoffs have begun. Who are the defending champion of the world? Oh, I remember. NPR’s Tom Goldman joins us. Tom, thanks so much for being with us.

SIMON: It’s a pleasure.

TOM GOLDMAN, BYLINE: We’ll get to that game last night first. But the AL – the Cleveland Indians have really been handling the New York Yankees so far, haven’t they?

GOLDMAN: You know, Cleveland has that look of magic, doesn’t it?

SIMON: Sure does.

GOLDMAN: The Indians won a thriller yesterday, 9 to to 8 in 13 innings after trailing 8 to 3. They had that 22-game win streak late in the regular season. But Scott, if you’re going to break through and win your first World Series in 69 years, you need luck, too. And Cleveland got that last night in the form of New York manager Joe Girardi making some questionable calls in the Bronx. I’m sure they’re using terms other than questionable.

SIMON: They have another way of saying questionable in the Bronx, yes.

GOLDMAN: Yeah. These calls – in one case, a no call where Girardi didn’t challenge a play on the field – might have helped swing the game Cleveland’s way. You know, in a short series like this, bad decisions mean more. And now the Yanks are one game from elimination.

SIMON: Houston Astros in the AL are two games up on the Boston Red Sox, and a superstar from Venezuela has really broken through, hasn’t he?

GOLDMAN: He has. Houston looked so strong offensively – two wins against Boston, both 8 to 2 thumpings. And that superstar, second baseman Jose Altuve, hit three home runs in the first game. He’s 5′ 6″. He’s the shortest active player in the majors and a huge – sorry – tiny fan favorite…

SIMON: Oh. He’s both.

GOLDMAN: And baseball fans are salivating over what’s looking like a Houston versus Cleveland American League Championship Series in the next round. It could be epic if it happens.

SIMON: Yeah. Nats, Cubs opened last night. And by the way – I hope you’ve seen the video – Representative Steve Scalise threw out the first pitch. It was good to see him. He threw a strike. It was a true pitcher’s duel. Stephen Strasburg of the Nats was untouchable, but stats don’t win ball games, do they?

GOLDMAN: (Laughter) Timely hits helped along by opponents mistakes do, which is what happened when the Cubs finally broke through against Strasburg. You know, for all his greatness, it was Chicago pitcher Kyle Hendricks who ultimately was more effective. He held Washington to two hits. He’s not a guy who throws with blazing speed, but his placement of the ball was nearly flawless. His catcher said Hendricks didn’t miss a spot.

SIMON: Yeah, and not nearly flawless. The opening of the NHL season coincides a terrible crime on the streets of Las Vegas this week. And their first major sports pro team began their history. The Las Vegas Knights had their first game ever against the Dallas Stars in Dallas last night. A sober ceremony on the ice – what a time to step into the story of a city, isn’t it?

GOLDMAN: Very dramatic – and the Golden Knights won 2 to 1 in their first ever game. Winger James Neal scored both goals. He said he hoped he could make the people of Las Vegas smile for one night. You know, the Golden Knight, Scott, were always going to be an interesting story. The first major pro sports franchise in Las Vegas after sports leagues had historically avoided the city because of its connections to gambling, you know, bad optics – but now this hockey team is being embraced by the entire league. There have been tributes surrounding the NHL this season opening week. The home opener for the Golden Knights on Tuesday will be quite a meaningful event for sure.

SIMON: NPR’s Tom Goldman – thanks very much.

GOLDMAN: Thank you.

Copyright © 2017 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

Football star Cam Newton, quarterback for the Carolina Panthers, made an openly sexist comment regarding a female reporter on Wednesday. The NFL called Newton’s words wrong and disrespectful.

ROBERT SIEGEL, HOST:

NFL quarterback Cam Newton is in the midst of another controversy. Newton made a comment to a female football writer on Wednesday that’s being called sexist by some, simply dumb by others. NPR’s Tom Goldman has our report.

TOM GOLDMAN, BYLINE: Carolina Panthers quarterback Cam Newton has never been the shy and retiring type. He’s generated controversy with his effusive displays after scoring touchdowns. He incurred the wrath of journalists with his sullen and early exit from a post-Super Bowl interview a couple of years ago. Then yesterday he had this interaction with Jourdan Rodrigue. She’s a Panthers beat reporter for The Charlotte Observer. Rodrigue asked Newton about one of his wide receivers.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

JOURDAN RODRIGUE: Devin Funchess has seemed to really embrace the physicality of his routes and making – getting those extra yards. Does that give you a little bit of an enjoyment to see him kind of truck-sticking people out there?

CAM NEWTON: It’s funny to hear a female talk about routes like – it’s funny.

KAVITHA DAVIDSON: My first reaction was really? Really? Like, we’re still talking about this in this way?

GOLDMAN: Twenty-eight-year-old Kavitha Davidson has been an ESPN reporter for the past four years, an era when women have become more of a given rather than an exception in sports journalism. But she says Cam Newton’s comment is indicative of a mentality that still exists.

DAVIDSON: It’s still an anomaly. It’s still weird for men, whether it’s fans or athletes or GMs or coaches, to hear women speak intelligently about sports, and in this case analytically as well.

GOLDMAN: Davidson has interviewed Cam Newton. She likes him. She says he’s a joking person who doesn’t always think before he speaks. And Davidson says he should know better considering the criticism of Newton, who’s African-American, for his on-field celebrations and sometimes testy relationship with reporters.

DAVIDSON: I think some of those criticisms are racially tinged, frankly.

GOLDMAN: After yesterday’s press conference, Jourdan Rodrigue says she talked to Newton and he didn’t apologize for the press conference comment. Rodrigue, however, did end up apologizing today for some racially insensitive tweets she made a few years ago. As for Cam Newton, Dannon yogurt, which has an endorsement contract with him, released a statement saying the company will no longer work with the Panthers quarterback. When asked if it planned to punish Newton, an NFL spokesman said via email it has not fined people for saying something stupid. The league released a statement saying the comments are just plain wrong and disrespectful and don’t reflect the thinking of the league. Tom Goldman, NPR News.

(SOUNDBITE OF WARREN G SONG, “WHAT’S NEXT”)

Copyright © 2017 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.