The racket is the one she smashed at the 2018 U.S. Open during a match she lost to Naomi Osaka. That was the game where Williams got a charge for illegal coaching, and got into it with the referee.

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

Good morning. I’m Rachel Martin. A famous tennis racket is up for sale, and it doesn’t even work. It’s Serena Williams’ Wilson Blade, the one she smashed at the 2013 U.S. Open during a match she lost to Naomi Osaka. It was the crack heard round the world after a dramatic game where Williams got a charge for illegal coaching and got into it with the ref. Williams gave the busted racket to a ball boy. He sold it for $500 to a collectibles store to get some cash for college. Now the store’s auctioning it off for a whole lot more.

Copyright © 2019 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

NPR’s Michel Martin speaks with elite runner Mary Cain about the abuse she says she experienced during her time running with Nike’s Oregon Project.

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:

As a high school student, Mary Cain was known as the fastest girl in a generation. At 17, she became the youngest American ever to make a world championship track and field team. Then she joined Nike’s elite Oregon Project, and her body and her running career fell apart.

Cain says that happened because she was surrounded by an all-male coaching team who were unqualified and ill-equipped to coach a teenage girl, and their training methods not only broke down her body. They nearly broke her mental health. Now at 23, she’s begun speaking out. She posted a graphic and powerful video describing her experiences as part of the New York Times’ “Equal Play” opinion video series, and she is with us now.

Mary Cain, thanks so much for joining us.

MARY CAIN: No, thank you for having me.

MARTIN: So, first of all, how did you start running? How did you figure out that you were good at this?

CAIN: I think kind of like a lot of kids do growing up in that I was the fastest kid in elementary school. And then in middle school, I was encouraged to try out for the varsity program because in the school I went to, it was K through 12. So if you were in middle school, you could actually compete with the high schoolers. And by seventh grade, I made the New York state championship meet. And so it just kind of took off from there.

MARTIN: So did you – people just go, like, wow, that girl is fast?

(LAUGHTER)

CAIN: I mean, the truth is, you know, in elementary school, I ran some times that were, you know, unofficial just kind of, like, gym class mile-level stuff. And I remember I clocked as a fifth grader maybe a 6:10 mile. And the coaches at the time, who, you know, just taught the gym class, were, like, whoa. That’s really fast. And after, like, a quick Google search later at home, we were, like, oh, that would actually rank you surprisingly high in the country.

MARTIN: (Laughter).

CAIN: And it was just a very weird, maybe low-key way to get into the sport because it was so – just for fun.

MARTIN: So how did you come to the attention of the Nike project, the Oregon Project, which was headed at the time by a very famous runner named Alberto Salazar? How did that happen?

CAIN: So in my sophomore year of high school, I ran in Barcelona for the World Junior Championships, and I set the national record for the girls’ 1,500 meters in doing so. And so Alberto actually had watched my race and was just really impressed and ended up calling up my family’s house and saying that he was interested in helping me kind of reach the next level and coaching me from afar originally.

MARTIN: So when did it start to go bad for you? I mean, because at this point, you – what I hear you saying is that, you know, running was fun. It was something you did because it was fun, and you were good at it. So when did you start to feel that something’s not right here?

CAIN: Really, the biggest turning point was when I moved out to Portland. You know, hindsight’s 20-20, so I can look back and say, oh, you know, there were warning signs even during those years where we had a long-distance coaching relationship. But I was buffered by my family and my friends and this other life that I had just in my hometown, and so running stayed fun. But as soon as I went out to Portland and was with the team full-time, things started to break down.

MARTIN: One of the things that you talked about in your piece for The Times was that – you made several points. One is that they would weigh you in front of other people. And, you know, tell me why that strikes you as so wrong.

CAIN: I think one of the biggest things for me during that experience was that some of the athletes he was weighing me in front of were my direct competitors. Not only were they teammates, but they were women that I was actually competing against in order to qualify for World Championship teams and Olympic teams. And just having, like, a direct competitor look at me as failing, I think, was, from an athlete perspective, so mortifying.

But then from a personal issue, I was an 18-year-old girl. We live in a society in which female weight is both fetishized and also under so much scrutiny. And so trying to shame somebody into losing weight is just such, I mean, an emotionally, psychologically and mentally traumatizing way to coach somebody.

MARTIN: You had other health effects, as I recall from your piece. You didn’t get your period for three years. Explain again why not getting your period for three years is a problem.

CAIN: Absolutely. So if you lose your period for an extended period of time, then you’re at risk to developing health issues, including bone problems. So when your estrogen levels drop – estrogen helps bone development. And when you’re in these very vulnerable years such as your teenage years, early 20s, you are still growing. You are still developing. And so if you put your bone health at risk, you can develop weak bones.

And there’s many women who are in this sport who have developed osteoporosis and osteopenia and, as a result, end up breaking their bones a lot. And I was on track to have a lot of really long-term health problems because my bone density did start to drop.

MARTIN: You said at some point that you became suicidal and that you actually started cutting yourself. Did you talk to the coaches about that? And when you did – or if you did – what did they say?

CAIN: So the man who was representing himself as a sports psychologist – he actually witnessed me cutting myself a couple times, and he never directed me to a medical professional for help. Instead, he just said pretty much the jargon of toughen up. You know, you shouldn’t do that.

And I ended up – after one particularly bad experience where I honestly just completely blew up and tried to make myself throw up and was cutting myself and just really traumatized after one particular race in which my coach had told me that I was five pounds too heavy and that’s why I ran bad, I told both Alberto and Darren Treasure, who was our sport psych, that, like, I didn’t know what to do. Like, I knew I was on a self-destructive path. I was really scared.

And I’m sorry. I’m starting to get a little emotional. But I think, you know, looking back at that time, I feel so bad for that girl. And I’m so happy that I’m not her anymore. But I know there’s so many people out there right now who are going through similar stuff, and that so breaks my heart.

And it’s so scary to think that I could sit in that room, and those two men could just say they wanted to go to sleep and didn’t want to talk about it more. And I was asking them for help in the lowest of all moments for me, and they didn’t want to hear it. They didn’t want to help me. I mean, honestly, they just insinuated I was being too emotional and needed to get over it.

MARTIN: How did it finally stop? How did you finally get out of that situation?

CAIN: So after that sit-down with my coach and the sports psych, I called my parents, and I admitted that I had been trying to make myself throw up and that I needed their help. And so I ended up going home. And, you know, honestly, my parents looked on in horror and tried to get me all the help that I could get during this time. But it’s been a process – one that I’m happy to say I’m on – I feel I’m almost fully out of. But, I mean, God, it’s taken years.

MARTIN: You know, it’s interesting because after you spoke out, a number of people responded on Twitter and through other means. But basically, you know, Twitter’s what’s available to us. And…

CAIN: Yeah.

MARTIN: A number of people came forward to validate your experiences. They either said that they had been treated similarly or they said that they had seen the behavior. They had witnessed it. And a number of them expressed regret that they didn’t do more to intervene.

But also – well, Nike also has, as I’m sure you know, released a statement. While saying your allegations are deeply troubling, they claim that you never raised them before or that your parents did not raise them before and that they also say that you were seeking to rejoin the project and Salazar’s team as recently as April of this year, and you didn’t raise these concerns. Can you speak to that?

CAIN: Yeah, absolutely. In regards to the Nike statement, I was honestly so horrified and disappointed that this giant billion-dollar corporation was going to come out and try to discredit or blame me or shame me in some sort of way. Why is their first reaction to defend this coach?

MARTIN: Alberto Salazar, who, as you’ve noted, has, in fact, been banned for four years because of anti-doping violations. But Salazar wrote to The Oregonian when your allegations became public. And he says that, I never encouraged her or, worse yet, shamed her to maintain an unhealthy weight. And he says that you struggled to find and maintain your ideal performance and training weight. Do you want to respond to that?

CAIN: Yeah. Honestly, when I read that, I just laughed. And I honestly just laughed in probably the most, you know, almost freaky way I could because I was, like, he still probably looks at me as a big girl and blames me for not hitting the weight that he, for some reason, thought was my ideal body weight.

MARTIN: You know, after all this, I mean, this was something you loved. You loved running. You ran…

CAIN: Yeah.

MARTIN: …Because it was fun, you know? Do you think you’ll ever run again?

CAIN: Yeah. I haven’t stopped (laughter). I’m still running. I’m still training. I hope to be racing in the next couple of months. The truth is the reason that I have been off the circuit for as long as I have is because I’ve been dealing with the health implications of everything that happened. So I’ve suffered quite a few injuries due to lowered bone density. It’s only been in the last year where I’ve been finally able to maintain a string of health, and my bones are stronger. And I’m feeling good, and I’m just honestly having fun with it again.

And I know I will run for the rest of my life because the actual act and art and feeling of running I love, and I hope to compete on a high level. I hope to be out there showing people that you can come back from really tough, awful times. And so hopefully, you’ll see me out there in 2020 on the track.

MARTIN: That was middle-distance runner Mary Cain talking to us from New York.

Mary Cain, thank you so much for talking with us. I hope we’ll talk again.

CAIN: Yeah. Thank you so much.

(SOUNDBITE OF CHARLIE HUNTER AND SCOTT AMENDOLA’S “GHOST MALL”)

Copyright © 2019 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

NPR’s Audie Cornish talks with Washington Post sports columnist Barry Svrluga about the system the 2017 Astros had for stealing signs, and how the Nationals prepped for it this year.

AUDIE CORNISH, HOST:

There’s a lot of noise during a baseball game, so it’s forgivable to not pick up on a particular drumbeat.

(SOUNDBITE OF DRUMMING)

CORNISH: Now, that is the sound of the Astros banging a trash can to signal an incoming pitch to their hitter during a September 2017 game. Here it is again.

(SOUNDBITE OF DRUMMING)

CORNISH: According to a story published this week by The Athletic, the Houston Astros violated rules on sign stealing. Joining us is sports columnist for The Washington Post Barry Svrluga. Welcome to the program.

BARRY SVRLUGA: Thanks for having me.

CORNISH: Let’s start with the sound itself. Who spotted it? Who realized it was a problem?

SVRLUGA: Well, a pitcher named Mike Fiers, who was on the 2017 Astros, subsequently went to other teams, told his teams that if – when they played Houston, they should be ready for pretty elaborate and technological sign stealing. He was quoted in The Athletic story that also cited three other sources saying that the Astros had this system in place and clearly a violation of MLB’s rules about using technology in the dugout.

CORNISH: Remind us what sign stealing is and why electronic stealing would be a big deal.

SVRLUGA: So sign stealing is really woven into the fabric of baseball. Players are trained to watch for differences in how a pitcher places his hands before he throws a different pitch. And then they talk about it in the dugout and say, hey, if he does this – if he comes to rest his hands at his belt, that means he’s going to throw a curveball or a change-up or a fastball. That’s all well above board.

What the Astros did here, allegedly, in installing a camera in center field to train in on the catcher’s signs of what pitch a pitcher was going to throw and then showing that in real time on a television screen in the tunnel between the dugout and the clubhouse, where the players could figure out the signs and then relay them to the batter in the batter’s box by using what The Athletic cited as a banging on a trash can – that’s considered well outside of baseball’s legal purview. So…

CORNISH: That’s incredibly elaborate, that description.

SVRLUGA: Exactly.

CORNISH: It hits both high- and low-tech – got to admire it.

SVRLUGA: Yeah, for sure. As one Nationals pitcher I talked to yesterday – the Nationals and the Astros met in the World Series last month. We don’t know whether this is true, he said. But if they won the World Series using these tactics in 2017, what’s to say that they stopped in subsequent years?

CORNISH: Let me dig into that a little more. You spoke to the Nationals pitching coach, Paul Menhart. What did he say to you about how that team prepared to play against the Astros in this year’s World Series if this was – I don’t know – an open secret in baseball?

SVRLUGA: Yeah. So – because the Astros’ reputation preceded them before the World Series this year, even before this story came out in full public view, the Nationals took some pretty extraordinary steps to use counterintelligence and offset any advantage the Astros might have been gaining.

They assigned each pitcher five different set of signs. Their two catchers had a laminated card on their wristband that showed all five sets of signs for each pitcher. The pitcher then put his sets of signs on the inside of his cap. And so if they suspected anything was going wrong, the catcher and the pitcher could get together and say we’re going to switch up our set of signs right now.

CORNISH: What does Major League Baseball have to say about all this?

SVRLUGA: So they’re conducting an investigation. They’ll certainly interview members of the 2017 world champion Astros who have since gone on to work elsewhere, both players and coaches. There are two other major league managers that are – were members of that team and staff. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a huge fine or some sort of penalty on the Astros and some new regulations in place before spring training starts in February.

CORNISH: All right. Washington Post columnist Barry Svrluga, thanks so much.

SVRLUGA: Thanks for having me.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

Copyright © 2019 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

The University of Memphis is defying the NCAA and suiting up a star freshman who has been deemed “likely ineligible.” It’s a test of the NCAA’s power to enforce longstanding amateurism rules.

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:

In men’s college basketball last night, an early season matchup between top 20 teams ended with Oregon beating Memphis in Portland. But the bigger story of the game was the presence of Memphis freshman star player James Wiseman. He is right in the middle of a legal battle with the NCAA. NPR’s Tom Goldman says Wiseman’s case is generating more anger about the NCAA’s strict rules on amateurism.

TOM GOLDMAN, BYLINE: It’s not often the mere act of putting a basketball player in a starting lineup is controversial.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

UNIDENTIFIED ANNOUNCER: Center, 7’1″, from Nashville, Tenn., number 32, James Wiseman.

GOLDMAN: But last night, as Memphis freshman center James Wiseman jogged onto the court in Portland for pregame introductions, it was indeed a moment of significant controversy – another act of defiance, says Michael McCann. He’s a legal analyst for Sports Illustrated.

MICHAEL MCCANN: It’s a university essentially telling the NCAA, we’re doing what we want, and we’re not afraid of you.

GOLDMAN: Last week, before Memphis’ season began, the NCAA indicated Wiseman would be ineligible to play. The NCAA believed Wiseman got an improper benefit from his current head coach, Penny Hardaway. In 2017, Hardaway was a high school coach in Memphis, and he paid Wiseman’s mom a little more than $11,000 to help her move her family to Memphis, where Wiseman played high school ball for Hardaway. Years before, Hardaway had donated a million dollars to the university, his alma mater. McCann says in the NCAA’s mind, that made Hardaway a booster for the university.

MCCANN: And because of that, Wiseman is ineligible or appears to be ineligible because a player can’t have expenses paid for by a booster.

GOLDMAN: Lawyers for Wiseman argue the NCAA knew about the Hardaway payment to Wiseman’s mom when it cleared Wiseman to play in May. The attorneys rushed to a Tennessee court last Friday and got a temporary restraining order. Wiseman has played all three of Memphis’ games with support from the university and most of Memphis.

REGGIE GLASPIE: I’m a hundred percent behind him.

GOLDMAN: Forty-six-year-old Memphis resident Reggie Glaspie made the trip to Portland for last night’s game.

GLASPIE: I think Penny, number one, has the best interests of the kids, and I think that he’s doing right by trying to just let the NCAA know that, hey, you can’t pick on us.

GOLDMAN: Anti-NCAA sentiment has been percolating nationwide since late September. That’s when California passed its law allowing college athletes to be compensated for the use of their name, image and likeness, a different case than the one in Memphis, says Daily Memphian sports columnist Geoff Calkins. But really, it’s all of the same piece.

GEOFF CALKINS: People are realizing that the fundamental rules that undergird all of this are based on a system of amateurism which makes no sense. And so, sure, were – was there a violation of rules that make no sense?

GOLDMAN: The NCAA said in a statement Memphis was notified Wiseman is likely ineligible. The university chose to play him, the statement continued, and ultimately is responsible for ensuring its student athletes are eligible to play. Possible NCAA punishment could include the school forfeiting games in which Wiseman played.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

UNIDENTIFIED ANNOUNCER: James Wiseman.

GOLDMAN: Wiseman only played about half of last night’s game because of early foul trouble. Still, he scored 14 points, had 12 rebounds and showed the agility and power that are expected to make him one of the top NBA draft picks next year. He didn’t talk to reporters afterwards. The university is guarding him closely. For now, his lawyers are doing the talking. There’s a hearing on his case scheduled for next Monday. Two days before, Memphis plays Alcorn State and, with James Wiseman in the starting lineup, will defy the NCAA once again.

Tom Goldman, NPR News, Portland.

(SOUNDBITE OF THE MOUNTAIN HOWL’S “MELT”)

Copyright © 2019 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

The LA Clippers get fined, the San Francisco 49ers are the winningest team in the NFL, and the Boston Bruins are out for revenge. Scott Simon talks to Howard Bryant.

SCOTT SIMON, HOST:

Know what gets me through the week? Time for sports.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

SIMON: The NBA debate, should coaches bench their superstars just so they can take a rest? And holy, Garoppolo, the 49ers are undefeated. And the Bruins are cruising. We’re joined by Howard Bryant of ESPN. Howard, thanks so much for being with us.

HOWARD BRYANT: Scott, the derisive way in which you said rest. Do you really mean that?

SIMON: Well, all right.

BRYANT: (Laughter).

SIMON: Let me pose the question for you, you know, in perhaps a better stated way. The NBA fined the LA Clippers $50,000. Coach Doc Rivers said Kawhi Leonard – he didn’t start him. The league said he was injured. Coach Doc said, you know, actually he was fine. He was OK. He was great, in fact. Now…

BRYANT: (Laughter).

SIMON: …Should superstars be benched particularly early in the season because the coach, maybe only meaning to be conscientious, wants to save them for important games further on into the season and the playoffs?

BRYANT: Yeah, I understand the perspective. The NBA season is a grind. It’s a very, very long season. You’re starting out in October. You get to the playoffs in late April. And then the playoffs last two months. So the regular – the postseason doesn’t even end until almost July. So I understand the impulse. I also understand when you’re a coach, your attitude is, look; you’re paying me to win important games. You’re paying me to win championships, especially when you’re the Los Angeles Clippers, where you get Kawhi Leonard from Toronto, you – who just won a championship a few months ago. And the end goal for the Clippers is to be hosting the trophy a few months from now.

I also understand it from a consumer standpoint, which is where if you’re going to pay 150 bucks a ticket to go see the best players play, then for that one game that you’re going to, you want to see Kawhi Leonard against Giannis Antetokounmpo, which is – which was the matchup. You had the Milwaukee Bucks team that is supposed to go to the NBA Finals against the Clippers team that is supposed to go to the NBA Finals. And so if you’re the paying customer, you show up at that the arena, and that matchups not going to happen, that’s a bitter pill. That’s the reason why you paid all that money.

SIMON: Yeah. I mean, the NBA sells itself as entertainment. And, you know, great entertainers show up when the curtain goes up.

BRYANT: Well, exactly. And the bottom line on that is if you’re Doc Rivers, if you’re the coach, you’re thinking to yourself, OK, what are you going to remember more? Are you going to remember me not playing Kawhi Leonard in November, or are you going to remember Kawhi Leonard not being healthy and ready to go when the big games start when the playoffs begin?

SIMON: NFL season is halfway over. The San Francisco 49ers, who were 4-12 last year, are now 8-0. They’ve got a big Monday night game against the Seahawks. Are they as good as 8-0?

BRYANT: Well, they’re good. They’re really good. And we’re going to find out how good they are because the Seahawks are 7-2. And that’s a rivalry game. And we know how big that is. You haven’t had that kind of excitement in San Francisco for a really long time, haven’t won a Super Bowl since 1995, haven’t been to the Super Bowl since Colin Kaepernick took them there back in 2011 against the Ravens. And so when you are looking at this team, you get – you’re excited. You’re excited. And I think that Garoppolo’s a great, great quarterback. They’re doing it with defense. Their defense is almost as good as the Patriots. So – it may be better. And you’ve got George Kittle. You’ve got a nice tight end there. And so they run the ball. They catch it. They do everything you’re supposed to do to win. And they turn the ball over, as well. So they get turnovers. So they’re doing all the things that championship teams have to do. But it’s halfway there. It’s going to be a big game Monday night.

SIMON: NHL, the Bruins, of course, lost Game 7 in the Stanley Cup, but they’re back with a vengeance. Can they keep it up?

BRYANT: Well, once again, long season. You go out and you lose the Stanley Cup at home, and you want to go on a revenge tour, but you’ve got to play a long way. The Bruins have lost two in a row now. And it’s – a lot of good teams out there. St. Louis is still a good team. I think that what they have to do is you’ve got to maintain that emotion, but at the same time realize it’s a marathon. But they’re really good to watch.

SIMON: Howard Bryant of ESPN, thanks so much for being with us my friend. Talk to you soon.

(SOUNDBITE OF LARI BASILIO’S “A MILLION WORDS”)

Copyright © 2019 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

Members of the Australian women’s national soccer team will now earn as much as the men’s team in a historic deal that addresses the equal pay. Note: audio courtesy the Fox Sports Soccer Channel.

RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

The U.S. women’s soccer team, the 2019 World Cup champion, is still fighting for pay equity with their male counterparts.

DAVID GREENE, HOST:

But there is one team who just made that goal a reality – the women’s team from Australia, known as the Matildas. After years of negotiations, they reached a landmark deal ensuring the women who represent Australia are paid the same as the men.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

SARAH WALSH: It’s hard to not be sentimental about today because it’s a massive moment for football.

GREENE: That is Sarah Walsh, a former pro on the Matildas. She helped lead the negotiations.

MARTIN: And the deal is historic. I mean, not only does it ensure equal pay, it also gives an even split of commercial revenue. And the Matildas now have access to the same training facilities as the male players. Elise Kellond-Knight is one of the Matildas’ stars.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

ELISE KELLOND-KNIGHT: This new deal is enormous. As a female footballer, it’s kind of what we’ve always dreamed of. We’ve always wanted to be treated equal. We wanted to be able to step out on that pitch with equal opportunity and the equal facilities that the men have been exposed to.

GREENE: She says this is going to enable the next crop of Matildas to shine at World Cups in the future.

KELLOND-KNIGHT: The big win is for this younger generation. So they’re looking at this new deal. Now they’re thinking – wow, I can make a go of this. I think it’s phenomenal. I think it’s just going to attract more females to the game.

GREENE: Australia joins New Zealand and Norway in placing female and male players on the same pay scale. The world champion, team USA, as we said, is still absent from that list.

MARTIN: Mediation efforts between the U.S. women’s team and U.S. Soccer fell apart. That battle is now set to head to court next year, just months before the 2020 Olympics.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

Copyright © 2019 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.